I’ve been watching a LOT of screens. News updates for a little while, but now anything to distract me and my family, or to try to pretend everything is OK. Notice, I used the word screens. That’s new for me. We’re swapping tablets, phones and televisions depending on the show or the “content.” God, I hate the word content.

I’ve noticed my own habits haven’t changed per se, as much as they have accelerated to something I assumed was inevitable. More streaming, almost no broadcast or cable—and anything from those sources is timeshifted. And no, I’m sitting out the Jordan doc. Less traditional TV has relieved me from the onslaught of brands standing with me during these uncertain times. Something to be thankful for.

I reached out to Kenneth Kinney who has been mastering video media and a leader in addressable television advertising since before I knew it was possible. He is VP of Marketing and Digital Strategy at Ai Media Group and he has a vision for how the current state of things will lead to changes in a broad collection of industries that contribute to and benefit from the content we consume.

Listen here: https://specific.substack.com/p/what-will-kenneth-kinney-be-watching?r=n6j6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

Links:
https://www.asharksperspective.com/
https://aimediagroup.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethkinney/

Adam Pierno 0:10
Alright, welcome back to another episode of the strategy inside everything. This one has been a long time coming. I have been connected with our guests today, Kenneth Kinney for over a year that we’ve been trading ideas

Kenneth Kinney 0:23
trading ideas.

If you like this conversation, have I got a podcast for you. The Strategy Inside Everything is available everywhere, including direct to your inbox.

Adam Pierno 0:25
We’ve been waiting for the right time to connect on this show and and I think the topic finally popped up that we were like, yes, this is the one this this is a good time but I want to introduce Kenneth everybody listening. He’s a kind of a jack of all trades speaker is an author. He’s a black belt in several disciplines. He is also a marketing consultant, and he is today the VP of Marketing and digital strategy at Ai Media Group. Kenneth Kinney, welcome to the strategy inside everything. How are you?

Kenneth Kinney 0:55
Thank you doing great and you said we were trading ideas we were trading inside stock tips.

Adam Pierno 1:01
SEC, if you’re listening, that is not true.

Kenneth Kinney 1:03
Exactly.

Adam Pierno 1:05
Hey, before we get started on today’s topic, you want to give people a little bit of your career background and just catch them up on on who you are and what you’ve done.

Kenneth Kinney 1:14
Yeah, you bet. So my nickname is Shark and I do a podcast called A Shark’s Perspective. But some of that came from my own, you know, love for scuba and for swimming with sharks since I was a kid, I’ve been doing that most of my life. But one of the things that I tend to think I’ve been able to do in my own career, maybe that’s a little bit different is that I’ve, I’ve worked as a consultant that worked as a, as an agency like I do now, I’ve worked on the brand side a lot. I’ve been a solopreneur and an entrepreneur before. You know, it worked also as a publisher. And so when you worked in all those different forms, I think it sort of gives me a decent holistic view of, of how to look at the customer from all sides. Not only a lot of us pretend that we are the customer in marketing, it sort of goes with that. But I tend to think try to think of all the views of how the customer sees us or how we see the customer.

Adam Pierno 2:12
Yeah, and all that various perspective is why I wanted to connect with you. Because through all those, there’s a thread of understanding media understanding the way people consume media and what people prioritize in media. And the idea of not just media, but consumer behavior and understanding you’re very uniquely able to express it in a digestible way for people. So

Kenneth Kinney 2:38
Yeah, well, we we’ve talked about this before. I mean, it’s really, you know, same thing you talked about, I know, that I probably referenced as well as people aren’t sitting back and, and, you know, thinking about your brand, which I completely agree with, and I don’t think they have time I really try to explain to both people on the marketing side and on the advertising side, we’ve gotten so channels from Specific whatever the channel is, whether it’s stuff you do only in marketing or even stuff you did only in advertising but the customer, they don’t care, they only see one version of you. They’re not pulling back the bloomin onion define, you know, what’s the inner core of your brand, they don’t care they get in as soon as your ad runs away. If it’s not sticky enough, they’re moving on and they’re getting pitched by 100 other brands, there’s, there’s a lot of choices out there. So I think a lot of what I talked about, as well is really sort of, you know, different ways of making things memorable, sticky. I mean, it’s all those things are sort of related, but I think it’s truly with the understanding that, you know, all of that has to work together and we’re living in a world with way too many silos.

Adam Pierno 3:46
Yeah. When you think of consumers, do you think of them as “they”? Or do you think of them as yourself? Or do you kind of always hedge and think of them as ourselves there creates a danger for putting myself too much in the place The consumer really is.

Kenneth Kinney 4:01
Yeah, I’ve always thought of myself as the consumer first before a marketer and I think that’s with a healthy dose of I think it comes with being a marketer with a healthy dose of cynicism. I know we’ve got a lot of smart people who really believe that what a lot of what we’re doing in different forms of marketing or advertising as always, we’re always works. But you know, I don’t believe that at all. I mean, we we have the power to, to do a lot but maybe not as much as we sometimes give ourselves credit for. And so I think we, at least for that reason, that’s that’s kind of why I try to stay focused on looking at it from a customer’s perspective, rather than just from a marketers perspective.

Adam Pierno 4:45
Yeah, absolutely. It keeps you from getting too self focused, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I think I thought about this for a long time that the amount of ads that have like New York City subways, in them, compared to the amount of people that actually ride a subway, it doesn’t it doesn’t correlate. It doesn’t make any sense. And it makes sense for the agency that created it and maybe the client that’s based in New York or the tri-state area, but for someone in Dubuque or Texas, they’re like, that’s a neat thing that I’ll never experience. Yeah,

Kenneth Kinney 5:18
Yeah. Yeah, most of the country doesn’t live in Manhattan, even though I worked for a wonderful agency that’s based right in the heart of Manhattan, you know, that. There is a world between San Francisco and New York. I know that’s hard for a lot of folks to believe. But even if you’re on the East Coast, unless you’re in Boston or New York, it doesn’t look like the rest of the country.

Adam Pierno 5:43
Yeah, it’s very different. And we have to figure out how to communicate those things, or communicate something more universal doesn’t have to be specific to any particular Transit Authority.

Kenneth Kinney 5:55
Yeah. Well, you edit this out if you want to, if you don’t want to keep it. If If you want to keep it evergreen, but I mean even think about this in relation to the coven, what’s going on with with the coronavirus right now, if you are in New York and we were just talking about this on an agency call earlier, the bubble that they’re in right now and what they see with the news, it just sort of makes you so not self centered, not the right word. But it’s just it’s a different point of view than what if you’re not in your axes right now? Yeah.

Adam Pierno 6:27
Yeah. And that will change and we are good. Let’s just own it. We’re recording this during the the self social self isolation period. That’s why we’re talking in part as the curve moves across the country, and I don’t think it’ll move directly east to west but as it jumps up in different areas, we’ll see that media focus move from I don’t know what the next city will be in New York. We saw it moved to Louisiana, then it’ll probably go whatever the next city is, and what will happen is not only will the curve fly The media intensity will flatten because they will start to lose ratings, they’ll start to lose viewership, they will start to feel like the story is getting stale. And ultimately they’ll say, Well, this is a terrible thing for me to say out loud. But from a media perspective, not from a me personally perspective, they will say, well, that city isn’t as meaningful as New Orleans is to Americans or that it’s not as important of a news story, if it’s not San Francisco or I can relate it to Facebook being headquarter, you know, so I think we’ll start to see them. I think when the media scrutiny dies down, it will free people to just not be so claustrophobic, like

Kenneth Kinney 7:38
Let’d get back to criticizing politicians. Yeah,

Adam Pierno 7:41
right. Get back to the business of hand. Everything is the worst person of all time, even if they’re just trying to serve their country and do something honorable. Some of them are right, because

Kenneth Kinney 7:51
It depends on which channel you watch!

Adam Pierno 7:54
Well, if you watch if you flip back and forth between bowls, and you only hear good things, they’re all on Wonderful. So I think that’s how I try. Yeah, true. That’s me, Mr. Silver Lining.

Kenneth Kinney 8:05
Great.

Adam Pierno 8:06
But what the reason the question that I emailed you that that kicked us off here is, as we are coming as we are sitting around, I’ve been very fortunate to be very busy with work at my day job and also some other side projects and in my family, but we’ve been just watching a lot of television, I’m calling it television, a lot of extremes. A lot of his, you know, might be over the top or pay per view or a lot. Some of it is actually network shows that we hadn’t watched in a long time. But we’re like, oh, well, we’ve got this time period now where there’s new computing, and we’re here and let’s let’s go catch up on this season of this show, because we’ve never watched it before. And you have expertise in television and in addressable and kind of technology behind television. So I wanted to get your pulse on trends that you might be seeing if any, which I’m sure it’s not the first thing on your mind right now. Now, but forecast review of how you think, you know, will there be something that comes out of this as the behavioral change in media that people were not doing before like for example, we we subscribe to Disney plus just because we knew we were going to be in the house a lot. And I thought the kids would enjoy it and what’s really funny is I can’t get them to watch it. I thought I was giving them a gift. I was like, well, we’re going to be in a house for 45 days here. Let’s Let’s give him a library of content. Not interested. I don’t know why.

Would you like to hear more from Adam? Book him as a live or virtual speaker

Kenneth Kinney 9:33
Yeah. Well, you know, I love the way you preface that as well too, you’re you’re calling it television and that’s, that’s a big misnomer. I think that a lot of people sometimes get too focused on it. And the reason I say that is because I watch you know, stream video on a 65 inch laptop. It’s a Samsung or a Vizio as opposed to a you know an apple you know iMac but so often We look at video as something’s some sort of separate entity, but it’s still TV away, it’s consumed. You know, people are getting too focused on on necessarily whether it comes to a satellite satellite box or a cable. But when you’re streaming you know when you’re streaming Netflix, it’s still TV.

Adam Pierno 10:20
Right? Yeah. And people say, Oh, I want to intermediate plan. They’ll say, well, we have to capture people on mobile. Exactly. Mobile. What are you even talking about? Like, this is bigger. This device I’m holding up is bigger than the TV I had in my room when I was, you know, a teenager. It’s it’s got better resolution and shows higher quality stuff on demand. I didn’t even know I had rabbit ears when I was.

Kenneth Kinney 10:40
Exactly. Well, I never thought that that people would and I’ve heard a lot of people references references as well. I never thought that people would watch as much TV in stream video or download a video on a phone or tablet, but I travel a lot speaking a lot of gigs and I’m only Watching movies and stuff on you know that downloaded from Netflix or prime or for from wherever I do that all the time on the road and download that’s considered, you know video for the most part. I don’t download stuff from direct tv because it’s clunky and it takes a long time to, to download it to a box. So you know some of the just basic things that have made the consumption of streaming videos so light years better and less clunky than what a lot of the major providers have done, have also pushed people but a lot of it got to be because people were just sick of non contextual, unrelated ads. That didn’t make any sense. And you had to sift through for years and you had no other choice, but watch it now. People have choices. So they jumped into watching decades. Yeah, well, ever since the first TV ad was shown nearly 70 something years ago. So it was 1941 It was a bullet that I use it to sort off a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, a lot of my TV presentations and and i think people sometimes forget the transitions we’ve made but you know a lot of those shows even that go back to black and white. It’s one I on occasion will watch with my toddler and it makes me laugh that it’s on. It’s available on Netflix and prime is, you know, 50 years ago 60 years ago people watching Andy Griffith and black and white on rabbit ears. Then came cable and it was like one of the highest rated shows on cable with Turner Broadcasting Network or I think it was seems either TBS or TNT things to show it over and over and over. It was one of the highest rated daytime shows then now it’s being streamed with with pretty good traffic on both Netflix and the same thing happened with as we grew with older shows, or more recent shows, rather like friends or Seinfeld receive they’re paying, you know, hundreds and millions of dollars. stream shows that are can now consider video which were TV right, six, seven years ago

Adam Pierno 13:06
And that brand, the Friends brand. So NBC as the show as the network that aired both of those shows. But NBC gets lost in the shuffle. Yes, yeah, profit on the back end for sure. But they produce content for television. And now they’re kind of left in the dust unless there’s a peacock logo at the end of every episode, I don’t know because Netflix doesn’t show you the credits. But it it’s it’s the brand of the show that has transcended the brand of the carrier. And that’s right there is the demonstration of how neutral we are like, I have a Netflix Netflix subscription. But I don’t care about Netflix and seeing all that Disney has done with Hulu. I’ve been thinking like maybe I’ll maybe I’ll cancel this or pause this Netflix account and move over to Hulu for six months and catch up on all the good stuff they’re doing over there because those are shows more for me whereas Netflix. All I’m doing is looking at those windows that they show me and saying, “Man, Isn’t it weird that the trending row and the most watched and the top 10 thing that they’re doing and the recommended for me are all the same 15 shows?” Yeah, absolutely makes sense, given the data prowess that I hear about Netflix.

Kenneth Kinney 14:19
Yeah, I love to add in shows for my toddler and for my wife all on my list, just to screw with her algorithm as much as I possibly can. So apologies mother in law, that’s always calls when I’m wanting to interview. But if you look at the if you look at the consumption of TV today, you’re absolutely right, because a lot of the production companies are always third parties. You’ve seen this a lot of years with shows that were on network TV. You know, Lucifer was made by NBC and then switch to Netflix once it got pulled off there. And so you see a dolled up. Yeah, you’re seeing that more and more That was even on not even before that, but just companies or a lot of ones like Supergirl was was a CW show that was first on CBS or vice versa. Now I’m kind of forgetting which one once they stay flipped

Adam Pierno 15:14
Scrubs went from NBC to ABC.

Kenneth Kinney 15:16
Exactly. So you’ve seen a lot of those where sometimes on network TV where it was produced by a different network, again, those are third party productions. But you’re right, the content is what’s pulling us in. Now, the brands would love to tell you about them that they that they care about you and they, they’ve really spent a lot of time on that. But we know that they only care slightly. And they’ll send you an email to tell you how much they care, along with some CDC guidelines on how to wash your hands in an email form,

Adam Pierno 15:48
They care about you as long as there’s $1 sign attached to it?

Kenneth Kinney 15:51
Exactly. But so that’s been a big part of what people I think have still had a problem understanding that differentiation and how we consume is not really that much different. The mean you’re you’re seeing it, you’re still seeing it on a large TV, for example, for the most part, and there’s a lot of consumption that comes in video that does add to the noise. And there are a lot more people that are now watching, obviously, tick tock in in YouTube and everything else. But there’s still a huge amount of traffic that are watching those shows, whether they’re on Netflix or CBS, whether it’s on your PlayStation, Xbox One or your TV or your iPad. And that’s, I think, where some people get confused and how we look at consumption. Now, how we look at advertising, though, has been has made leaps and bounds in the last five or six or seven years, and how we really target the people and deliver those ads. And that’s been a major difference over the last near decades. And is the is the current pattern. So my assumption is I haven’t looked at ratings books but my assumption is that right now news is spiking. And local news is probably spiking in a way that is saving people’s lives.

Adam Pierno 17:13
Do you think that is that going to cook the books and change targeting for the next six months that you know this 30,45,60 day cycle of people just tuned in relentlessly to their local anchors and flipping back and forth to their cable news channel of choice?

Kenneth Kinney 17:30
Well, I love I think most of the TV providers now stay well connected to quite a few of them. They are they’re struggling right now. I mean, advertising is really taken a bath across the board but especially in TV because when you take out the dollars for major sporting events and major other events concerts service to Yeah, those award shows that come on the Grammy this and the Oscar that and then I mean, you think we we didn’t have March Madness. We have sadness and sadness had nothing other than you know Morgan and Morgan commercials or an insurance company or pharmaceutical Yeah, those same those same Liberty Mutual ads that we see over and over and over with it that stupid emo, but they’re they’re really having a a significant number of people cutting the cord that is one thing at least is his consumption and ad serving that I didn’t think would accelerate. There were a lot of people two, three years ago saying that everybody was cutting cord it was happening and they were they were doing it and it was a bunch of BS I was seeing numbers still still in growth working closely with the publishers and managing a lot of those national campaigns. This year though, it’s been different and I and a lot of that is I don’t know how much is predicated on on coronavirus in that but we’re seeing a lot of people cut cut cords right now.

Adam Pierno 18:56
So the so the measures that you’re seeing the viewers actually change habits away from cords and move more towards the streaming or movies, more stores over the top or or outside of the traditional right now at the quarter.

Kenneth Kinney 19:10
As of the time we were that we’re recording this, well, roughly 2019 I believe about a 5 million cut in total cord cutters. So you saw people getting away from the traditional district TV, Comcast, I mean, it’s the whole universe which is still a large universe, but you’re starting to see a lot more of those cords being cut. I don’t know how much of the pandemic will also contribute to that. Now consumption of TV is way up right now with what I’ve seen on stream it’s one of the things taxing the internet, but you’re but it’s not the ad dollars and ads behind it don’t reflect that 90% you know, 99% increase that we’re seeing Across the board, because one, one thing you’re not seeing right now that you would be seeing a lot of and based on projections, everybody thought this would be a much heavier ad spin for TV this year. Michael Bloomberg, perfect example. We thought that with the election coming Yep. And he’s a perfect example of how much money was coming. You’re not seeing any political ads the first half of the year, you probably won’t until we get somewhere closer. That was nonstop in January of 2020. Now we’re not seeing any, and that is going to change a lot of the ad spend as well, because those are dollars that are heavily heavily dependent on being dependent on but to show you where some of the spend is being shifted, is there was a story I believe it was an ad we did some follow up reading on it. But Trump’s Trump’s campaign bought the front page of YouTube on election day. So if you’re on YouTube, they’re all over it. You’ll see their ad somewhere on everything on YouTube, which is very useful. To see that their campaign is, I’m sure going to invest in TV heavily as well as traditional TV. But you’re also saying where they’re diving in full steam into digital with with YouTube.

Adam Pierno 21:12
Yeah. And so more and more it’s becoming the the fragmented versions of video that you referenced earlier, the way that we think about all the different channels of video. Brands need to be thinking about the vertical video, or vertical video as horizontal, all the different ways that’s going to touch people, as opposed to I need to be on over the top and I need to have an addressable line, I need to you have to keep all connected. It’s about getting reaching that same specific customer, that same specific audience, that same specific end user that you’re trying to reach.

Kenneth Kinney 21:46
Yeah, there’s so many so many digital marketers who have believed that we were going to move just we were going to rock it into everything being programmatic. Yeah, yeah, that that is not where we are yet. Not Yes,

Adam Pierno 22:00
they’ve been singing that song for 10 years.

Kenneth Kinney 22:02
Yeah, in it’s understandable because we thought everything was going to move digital. But then you’re starting to see a lot of ads that even in like 2019, like a data said, overly paraphrasing, but they said that we’ve invested too much in digital now they’re seeing that TV and other forms of marketing are fit that mix. And

Adam Pierno 22:21
so where we’re at is the flagbearer. But they’re not exactly saying like we need to actually have real face to face touches with people that we can we know we’re making a brand impact and not just a singular pixel contact.

Kenneth Kinney 22:34
And I’m not doing an agency commercial with the agency I work for has a patented attribution technology. And what we’re able to recognize, at least on the connected side, with where ads are seen across and it’s not model data, it’s real data, based on our patented technology is that we’re able to see where a TV ad that’s served through a connected device at least fits that journey. And it’s really an eye opener. For a lot of people, and I use it sort of as a money shot slide with different actual campaign data that may be for, you know, instead of thinking that Google served every ad to get me to go by, and that’s why I should only believe last click, it becomes a really difficult conversation for people to understand until they see it and recognize it. So one is sort of my own money shots, I use a show that Google has the first click that somebody went to Google and they search for something, but then they maybe they saw an ad through a connected TV device on CNN, or then they saw something on Facebook. Then they saw something, you know, through some trade desk type data, or maybe they saw a display ad or another Google ad, or maybe they saw one on Bing. And then they saw a TV ad, and then they converted on Google at the end. So then Google gets credit for last quick now. Google did gave the world of money. Marketing, digital marketing a gift when the most amazing analytics platform they could give it far exceeds what everybody else is doing. But it also tells their story. It is primary

Adam Pierno 24:10
to tell the Google story absolutely nailed it in in an incredible way and a valuable way. But it’s not the only way.

Kenneth Kinney 24:17
Well, it’s you know, I laugh I used to joke about dang being the redheaded stepchild, but being drove 10% of my growth when I was on the brand side and I did not ignore it. I don’t know of any brand who could ever say, let’s ignore 10% of growth, we don’t really want to focus the waste waste the time thinking about TV, and the buy point or about being my point is you got to look at all the parts of the journey because you’re your consumer is somebody who has ADHD like me, and they’re on 20 different channels before they get to you and they’re doing a lot more research and

Adam Pierno 24:49
more content. Yeah, being is a great example to you because not only does it drive that 10% or up to 20% for some brands, it doesn’t get much cheaper CPM or absolutely

measurement. It’s always almost always cheaper and it has a ceiling. But I’ll do that ceiling. That’s a good deal for most brands. I see that one staff and I did see is that being traffic actually is up right now, during during this period where during the coronavirus period where people are using more laptops mobile usage is down, which was up it almost 80% of most web does its web traffic is kind of dropping down to every every week, it seems to be going down another three or 4% as people get more ensconced on their couch and say, Well, why don’t I just use this bigger screen with a keyboard instead of swiping so I can get a little bit more immersed and bounce back and forth between streaming video and a website?

Kenneth Kinney 25:43
Well, the bank capital report in 2019 came out and she put out, you know, really important stat that I think for a lot of us that live in an attribution sense understand, is that 88% of People are using a secondary device when watching your TV. Yep. That is not a remote control. That’s a phone. Yes. So there’s a lot of mobile purchasing purchases being made. And it also makes sense that a lot of times you’re going to go and spend, you’re going to spend a lot more money on that. That last quick version of mobile search engine optimized those ads but not understanding where a TV ad can fall into place to help trigger that the same thing goes with direct mail to be email. But TVs getting a lot more connectable, you’re able to connect more dots than you could before. We we’ve seen that with what connected TVs done, I drove a pretty good chunk of the world’s addressable TV campaigns for quite a few years and the smartest brands were really looking at that where they were taking their first party data, they could have it bumped up against a TV subscriber file in a very clean environment. I mean, it was like Fort Knox. In the groups I work with in big data, that data was then used to, once it was hashed and sent back over to the TV’s, subscribers, they could then take that file and trigger an ad campaign that was addressable, then if they would provide the sales data back, you get an anonymized data report that shows clean, pure attribution of whether a TV ad triggered triggered a sale and how many touches did it take just like you could with TV. Now, one of the biggest problems though, and you’re starting to see more movement in this and I’ve had several conversations with people about this, that are still making me feel a little bit better about how we were going to future be targeting is that one of the problems with all providers being is competing for dollars against Microsoft or sorry against Google. Facebook is competing against Google Amazon’s competing against Facebook, they’re all competing with each others in these, you know, walled gardens. Yeah. And in TV, we don’t have an analytics dashboard that runs in real time that sees regardless across the channel, because they’re competing for ad dollars as well. Yeah. So whether or not the ad is run on, you know, through a direct tv or a Comcast ad, or it’s run through something that’s strained on, you know, through Hulu. Doesn’t matter to your customer at all. But what a marketers got to understand is where they saw that ad, what did it help also trigger and, you know, just don’t think of it only as one channel and that’s so much of so much of what people are doing is relying on model data and forgetting that as part of, or maybe not giving enough emphasis to nobody’s forgetting no smart marketers are, but they’re not under. They’re not able to connect the dots.

Adam Pierno 28:59
Yeah. You’re not able to wait that model to see the whole picture.

Kenneth Kinney 29:03
Yeah, I mean, TV. I mean, you’re looking at a major amount of span, I mean, half the campaigns that were work on, were somewhere in between, you know, 250,002.5 million. I mean, a TV the buys much bigger, the impact is, is stronger, but you’re measuring that over a 30 and 60 day window. You’re not you’re not a be testing. Unless you have a significant amount of corrective impressions for a major national buy. You’re not able to pivot that the same way you can, a banner ad but a banner ad cost you nothing and you’d only expect a 2% conversion anyway, right most of the time. So

Adam Pierno 29:40
the dates are different. Yeah, you can achieve the necessary impressions for that test in the first couple weeks of that campaign or in the first couple days of the campaign and turn it around and optimize and have a second ad going inside 10 days. But what what I’ve really found

Kenneth Kinney 29:55
to be, you know, sort of a sweet spot that I love To explain to people is that I speak at both marketing conferences and I speak at advertising conferences. And it’s so different than dynamic of the two and how they converge together. And it’s, it’s not necessarily one group speaking Greek and the other speaking, you know, Chinese and they don’t understand each other. But it’s, it’s a little bit like Spanish and Portuguese. Yeah. You know, and I speak both in Portuguese is is drunk Spanish and not understanding exactly what somebody’s saying and how the how the customer is going to interpret that where it works into the mix. We’re just in a very siloed environment that still creates a lot of problems to be able to optimize campaigns extremely well, without at least understanding how the consumer is truly digesting. Both your paid media, your organic stuff, your blog, stuff, all the pieces that come in between and TVs really fast. Feeling one of the strongest impacts of that right now? Yeah.

Adam Pierno 31:05
Kenneth, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for making time during all this craziness that’s going on. I really appreciate you sitting down and talking through this with me. It’s been it’s helpful, illuminating projects I’m working on. So sorry, I should send you a consulting check.

Kenneth Kinney 31:21
You’re welcome. Well, I would say the only interview that would probably have been better was you on episode 140 of my show.

Talking about specific, is that the

Adam Pierno 31:31
show is that the number I was on

Kenneth Kinney 31:33
that’s that’s the number I just checked it before.

Adam Pierno 31:36
What number are you want? What’s the newest episode? I know you had 200

You just read this whole thing? Hmm. If you’ve got time on your hands, you might like Specific or Under Think It.

Kenneth Kinney 31:40
to 216 I think I just posted this week but i i’ve dialed back a little bit. I’m not doing three a week during during the pandemic I’m, you know, even I have to dial back my own content. I did one this week on advertising. The last week it was about experience and how that’s going to change how customer experiences going to change and that’s one of the things we talked about. I mean, I know we’re always trying to put out thoughtful conversations, because we’ll get through this. But you also have to think of contextually, does anybody want to hear about advertising or something else during the wrong time? It’s just something we’re always going to do. This is the one time I’ve thought about non evergreen. Yeah, I mean to the last couple years,

Adam Pierno 32:22
I’m owning what we’re talking about now. And some of the reasons for most of these episodes and I figure people have a choice if they don’t, if they don’t want to listen, I understand. And if they want to listen, I want to provide something that’s useful during that time as a distraction or as a tool.

Kenneth Kinney 32:39
Well, the only difference between this episode now in two years from now is I will be better prepared for toilet paper, Clorox wipes, hand sanitizer, and stuff like that. That’s a really important life. But where,

Adam Pierno 32:54
where can people find you online? Yeah.

Kenneth Kinney 32:57
Best Places LinkedIn, Kenneth Kinney, or find me on On my website, asharksperspective.com that’s the easiest place because it’s got all the links to me. The show how to get in touch with me and more.

Adam Pierno 33:10
Yeah, and your podcast is amazing. I think. I hate to say hashtag honored to be on it. But look at the roster. When I see the posts and the new episodes come into my feed. I’m like, How the hell that I get on a show with those guys are on that show. It’s it’s pretty amazing that the guests you have are amazing.

Kenneth Kinney 33:28
Yeah, appreciate it. Well, you were an amazing guest as well. So don’t don’t knock yourself. I appreciate it. I appreciate the honor be on your show. All right. Thanks, man.

Adam Pierno 33:45
Wait, don’t stop listening. The show is not over. If you like what you just heard, or you’d like any of the episodes of the strategy inside everything, do me a favor. I really appreciate it. Leave a review wherever you listen to the show. Whether it’s Apple podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever Please leave us a rating and review. Please, if you can share this episode or another episode with a friend, let him know what you liked about it. That helps us quite a bit. If you have ideas for guests or topics follow up on episode you’ve heard you can tweet at us at a period that’s me, or at strategy underscore inside. That’s the show. Either way, I promise I will respond to you get back to you right away. And listen, running the show. It’s a labor of love. I really do like this because I enjoy the conversation, but it does cost money. So web hosting microphones cost money, kids haircuts cost money. If you wouldn’t mind, look at our Patreon, Adam Pierno. There, you can help us out quite a bit. For more information about all the guests we’ve had, anything you want to know about the podcast, my two books under thinking and specific or ways to engage with me as a strategy consultant or as a speaker at your next event. Please go to Adam Pierno calm and find all the information you want. If you can’t just send me a note. Thanks a lot.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai